It’s not just a stereotype — there’s hard data that now shows men don’t read a lot of fiction. But why doesn’t the genre hold the same appeal for men as it does for women, and what does it say about gender norms today?
Today on Commotion, Elamin chats with Nathan Maharaj, director of content marketing at Rakuten Kobo, and Pavan Sodhan, who reviews every nonfiction book he reads, about why men aren’t picking up novels.
We’ve included some highlights below, edited for length and clarity. For the full discussion, listen and follow Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud on your favourite podcast player.
WATCH | Today’s episode on YouTube:
Elamin: Nathan, when we talk about men reading fiction, they’re sort of as rare as a xylophone in a rock band. It just doesn’t happen, right? You do read fiction, but that’s given your line of work. I want to talk about how you would describe the gender divide when it comes to what men like to read.
Nathan: I don’t think it’s quite as rare as a xylophone…. Let’s say a violin, maybe a tenor saxophone — like, you see it, but you’re like, “Oh, that’s nice to see. I don’t see that every day.”
Elamin: Alright, gotcha.
Nathan: I think it’s got a lot to do with what people are looking for when they read. I think women are generally turning to books for pleasure more than men. Not to, like, crack open “what is masculinity,” but pleasure-seeking is a tightrope in masculinity. And so books are generally not a place where you’re supposed to go have a nice time and enjoy yourself for men — not when you could be cracking open a book to gain knowledge. And that could be anything from understanding better what really causes immigration? Where did my food come from?
Elamin: How did the Roman Empire end? And so on.
Nathan: But it can go all the way to the other, toxic end of the spectrum, like, “How to beat my liberal friend in an argument, assuming I still believe liberals are worth arguing with.”
Elamin: That’s a bestseller if I’ve ever heard one, Nathan.
Nathan: Absolutely. I’m working on the pitch.
Elamin: OK, Pavan, I want to talk about the fact that you read nonfiction, that you read more than 100 books a year…. How did you get here?
Pavan: First of all, I’m a Sikh Canadian, and the literal definition of “Sikh” means “someone who is a student or a disciple of truth and knowledge.” That’s an aspect of my faith that I’ve really taken to heart. I want to be a learner. Second, in my professional life, I’m advising decision-makers in the public sector, or executives in the private sector. So it’s critical that I’m informed and aware of the world around me, and reading books is the best way that I can do that.
Lastly, and I think this is the most important aspect of this, is the world is now so centered on short-form content, right? But we know that this leads to people getting sucked into what I call “bad thinking” and conspiracy theories, right? I want to live in a world with smarter people. That’s better for me. And reviewing these books publicly helps me to spread the word about these great authors who are credible in their relevant fields.
Elamin: I have to say, Nathan, what Pavan is circling there is, I think, a larger obstacle when it comes to how to position fiction books for men, specifically.… Because you can position a nonfiction book as to say, “This is the problem that this book solves in the world. If you’re interested in that problem, join in with this book.” You can’t do that with fiction. That’s not really what it’s for. So you want to maybe talk about the ways that fiction and nonfiction are marketed towards women and men?
Nathan: There are always exceptions, of course, but yes, fiction has a hard time finding its reader also because there’s an emotional investment required. But at a macro level, most women are where the sales are coming from. It’s an industry that floats on the purchasing decisions of women, and what I worry about is … that the book industry is a little like four-year-olds playing soccer — everyone’s chasing the ball in the same way, and there’s no one left behind to play other positions, consider what other sport we might be playing, what fields might be open. That worries me, but at the same time, I have to take a step back and see why might that be, and it’s got a lot to do with women in leadership positions.
The industry itself is fueled by the labour of women. So I don’t begrudge anybody for bringing to market a product that they themselves believe in. Those are just sound commercial decisions, and I think it’s fine, but I worry that by skewing it this way, it starts to turn books into “women things.” It is a heck of a thing to just spend time with a mind working through something, whether that’s an emotional texture of a landscape in a work of fiction, or trying to explain a social problem or recast history in a certain light.
You can listen to the full discussion from today’s show on CBC Listen or on our podcast, Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud, available wherever you get your podcasts.
Panel produced by Jean Kim.
